Comments on: Lost In Translation (The Untimely Demise of the TNIV) http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/ //in the glow, then it fades Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:30:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: TNIV « An Anabaptist in Perth http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3596 TNIV « An Anabaptist in Perth Sat, 12 Sep 2009 03:30:43 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3596 [...] TNIV Jump to Comments I was just going to get around to finally buying a copy of the Today’s New International Version of the Bible and now I hear that Zondervan is going to discontinue it, after a vitriolic campaign against it by the usual suspects of the American evangelical right. It’s times like these that I despair about evangelicals. Great post about it here. [...] [...] TNIV Jump to Comments I was just going to get around to finally buying a copy of the Today’s New International Version of the Bible and now I hear that Zondervan is going to discontinue it, after a vitriolic campaign against it by the usual suspects of the American evangelical right. It’s times like these that I despair about evangelicals. Great post about it here. [...]

]]> By: daniel so http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3587 daniel so Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:13:53 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3587 Sam - Nice to hear from you. I always appreciate your insight. It's good to be clear about what trade-offs we're making in different translations. Thanks for the followup information about the NIV 2011. I'm eager to see how this turns out. Sam – Nice to hear from you. I always appreciate your insight. It’s good to be clear about what trade-offs we’re making in different translations. Thanks for the followup information about the NIV 2011. I’m eager to see how this turns out.

]]> By: Sam http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3586 Sam Thu, 03 Sep 2009 18:02:03 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3586 Hi Dan, Perhaps not as bleak as it initially seems. Doug Moo seems to say, some of the developments in TNIV will carry over to NIV 2011. Looking forward to that version. I do remember more heat than light in TNIV critiques. Having said that, I did think TNIV could've been better, e.g., certain renderings could obscure potential messianic connotations. Maybe NIV 2011 will do better there. ESV is better for study than NIV in my view. NIV makes some decisions for the reader that a student would rather make himself (though NIV decisions are always very defensible ones). E.g., sarx as flesh or sinful nature, as well as faith of Christ as faith in Christ, etc. - Sam Hi Dan,

Perhaps not as bleak as it initially seems. Doug Moo seems to say, some of the developments in TNIV will carry over to NIV 2011. Looking forward to that version.

I do remember more heat than light in TNIV critiques. Having said that, I did think TNIV could’ve been better, e.g., certain renderings could obscure potential messianic connotations. Maybe NIV 2011 will do better there.

ESV is better for study than NIV in my view. NIV makes some decisions for the reader that a student would rather make himself (though NIV decisions are always very defensible ones). E.g., sarx as flesh or sinful nature, as well as faith of Christ as faith in Christ, etc.

- Sam

]]> By: daniel so http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3585 daniel so Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:34:54 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3585 Joel - Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I appreciate your scholarly insight into these important questions. Joel – Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I appreciate your scholarly insight into these important questions.

]]> By: daniel so http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3584 daniel so Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:29:25 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3584 Kee Won -- Haha! No worries - somehow this particular WP template doesn't recognize line spaces in the comments section. Strange, I say! I appreciate you sharing your experience with the Bible. There's something about living deeply in Scripture. While I have not abandoned my commitment to exegete like a Presbyterian, I definitely agree that the artistry of Scripture should not be ignored. Kee Won — Haha! No worries – somehow this particular WP template doesn’t recognize line spaces in the comments section. Strange, I say! I appreciate you sharing your experience with the Bible. There’s something about living deeply in Scripture. While I have not abandoned my commitment to exegete like a Presbyterian, I definitely agree that the artistry of Scripture should not be ignored.

]]> By: Ding Dong the Witch is Dead: TNIV is gone gone gone! « InterSection http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3583 Ding Dong the Witch is Dead: TNIV is gone gone gone! « InterSection Thu, 03 Sep 2009 05:31:24 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3583 [...] since it is a “faithful and scholarly translation” but there you have it.  There are others for whom the TNIV has been an important resource for their own lives and ministry and they ar....  Daniel writes: As someone who communicates from the Bible on a weekly basis, I have found the [...] [...] since it is a “faithful and scholarly translation” but there you have it.  There are others for whom the TNIV has been an important resource for their own lives and ministry and they ar….  Daniel writes: As someone who communicates from the Bible on a weekly basis, I have found the [...]

]]> By: Joel http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3582 Joel Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:58:25 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3582 <blockquote> Some people are totally hung up on the TNIV’s use of gender inclusive language. They rail against its “politically correct agenda,” [...] If the original biblical Hebrew or Greek implies both men and women (which it often does), shouldn’t we translate it as such? </blockquote> We're having a discussion of this exact topic on <a href="http://goddidntsaythat.com/" rel="nofollow">God Didn't Say That</a>. -<a href="http://www.lashon.net" rel="nofollow">Joel</a>

Some people are totally hung up on the TNIV’s use of gender inclusive language. They rail against its “politically correct agenda,” [...]
If the original biblical Hebrew or Greek implies both men and women (which it often does), shouldn’t we translate it as such?

We’re having a discussion of this exact topic on God Didn’t Say That.

-Joel

]]> By: Kee Won Huh http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3581 Kee Won Huh Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:50:09 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3581 (Sorry for not formatting.) (Sorry for not formatting.)

]]> By: Kee Won Huh http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3580 Kee Won Huh Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:49:19 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3580 It's weird. I've always been very attracted to the NRSV. I actually think it's because the version I had was single-columned, which made it read more like a novel rather than a two-columned bible ;p. I also think it's because the NRSV was the version I was reading when I went through my rough patch at PTS. It got me through some hard times, so I think I have a weird emotional attachment to it. Besides that, I do like the artistry of the sentences in the NRSV. Some of the sentences are very well-crafted, which I've found helps draw out a more emotions from me. (It also helps that it's mostly accurate, and tries to get across the intent of the author.) Man, I feel like I've lived under a rock for the past few years. I remember a long time ago when the TNIV was in the news, then I heard nothing about it for a long time (and I barely saw it in any stores). Now I'm hearing it's being nixed. Do online stores have any left? Yea, I have the same feelings about the ESV. Here's what I commented on Andrew's posting of your blog - "We started using the ESV in our church; however, despite it being advertised as an extremely readable literal translation, I've found it reads rather like sanded wood, and, at times, can be extremely hard to read or follow. (It gets especially problematic when they refuse to break up the paragraph-long sentences in Paul's letters [i.e. 2 Tim 1:8-12]). I've found it's hard on most lay-people, and fails to get across the intended meaning of key phrases because of their dedication to word-for-word translation, rather than intent. Many conservative Christians (a camp in which I fall) have gone the ESV route. What have you found most helpful about the ESV? (I actually am curious, because I'd like to know different perspectives as to why it's been embraced by so many. I was initially enthusiastic about it, but not so much now, especially after reading through it on a daily basis.) But personally, I have found it's a helpful exegetical tool." The thing annoys me most about all this is that the dogmatic Christian Right has done it again. Bleh. Please say HI to Jeya for me! It’s weird. I’ve always been very attracted to the NRSV. I actually think it’s because the version I had was single-columned, which made it read more like a novel rather than a two-columned bible ;p. I also think it’s because the NRSV was the version I was reading when I went through my rough patch at PTS. It got me through some hard times, so I think I have a weird emotional attachment to it. Besides that, I do like the artistry of the sentences in the NRSV. Some of the sentences are very well-crafted, which I’ve found helps draw out a more emotions from me. (It also helps that it’s mostly accurate, and tries to get across the intent of the author.)

Man, I feel like I’ve lived under a rock for the past few years. I remember a long time ago when the TNIV was in the news, then I heard nothing about it for a long time (and I barely saw it in any stores). Now I’m hearing it’s being nixed. Do online stores have any left?

Yea, I have the same feelings about the ESV. Here’s what I commented on Andrew’s posting of your blog – “We started using the ESV in our church; however, despite it being advertised as an extremely readable literal translation, I’ve found it reads rather like sanded wood, and, at times, can be extremely hard to read or follow. (It gets especially problematic when they refuse to break up the paragraph-long sentences in Paul’s letters [i.e. 2 Tim 1:8-12]). I’ve found it’s hard on most lay-people, and fails to get across the intended meaning of key phrases because of their dedication to word-for-word translation, rather than intent. Many conservative Christians (a camp in which I fall) have gone the ESV route. What have you found most helpful about the ESV? (I actually am curious, because I’d like to know different perspectives as to why it’s been embraced by so many. I was initially enthusiastic about it, but not so much now, especially after reading through it on a daily basis.) But personally, I have found it’s a helpful exegetical tool.”

The thing annoys me most about all this is that the dogmatic Christian Right has done it again. Bleh.

Please say HI to Jeya for me!

]]> By: daniel so http://headsparks.com/2009/09/02/lost-in-translation-the-untimely-demise-of-the-tniv/#comment-3579 daniel so Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:28:17 +0000 http://headsparks.com/?p=1979#comment-3579 Kee Won - Good to hear from you! Hope you & your family are doing well also! Thanks for the kind words. Yes, please feel free to use this post. * * * Good question about the NRSV... For me, it's been a helpful academic resource. I haven't found it to be as readable as the NIV/TNIV, but it feels less clunky to me than the ESV. How about you, what do you think? Kee Won – Good to hear from you! Hope you & your family are doing well also! Thanks for the kind words. Yes, please feel free to use this post.
* * *
Good question about the NRSV… For me, it’s been a helpful academic resource. I haven’t found it to be as readable as the NIV/TNIV, but it feels less clunky to me than the ESV. How about you, what do you think?

]]>